There's a lot going on in this thread, but I just want to assert the fact that we are reading it all, and we do have adjustments in mind which should hopefully put mages back in a better position. Look out for changes in the next hotfix patch likely within 24-48 hours.
im actually curious. can anyone give some numbers of the leeching exp post nerf? cos it just seems like everyone is just saying its really bad without actually giving any actual evidence that there is a significant difference. like have any of you even gone back to leech at petris after the patch? or did u all just collectively decide that just cos there was a nerf it was completely not worth it to even bother trying it out?
Its more about the whole thing combined. Not just the exp nerf. Its spawn - drops - pot prices etc together!
not exactly answering me, but ye i understand that. however, if the exp didnt dip that much, wouldnt it be still viable to sell leech in petris? like maybe u might need to lower prices a bit to match the exp, but ultimately you would be more likely to earn profit no? u can get 4800 ales for 80.4m which from personal experience could get my il through abt 2 days of leeching ~6hrs per day. even if the price for leech drops u would still be earning money
Why are u guys discussing about ToT ? that place is just crap and no buyer is going 2 do all the quests before buying leech. look at my suggestion what i sayd before this would be way better. : Why dont u just nerf Droprate back to 2x en leave the spawn rate the same then u get way less money in to the economy and everybody is effected and not only the archmages. i suggest: Leave spawn rate the same on the ulu maps.(and other maps if effected) Droprate of all mobs back to 2x Nlc pots 200% of the Original price. bring tax up to 5 % Remove Ap Resets out of NX Store and place them at Frederick for 15-20m in this suggestion u got 4 meso sinks who effects everybody. whit these changes u will get allot of mesos out of the game.
Probably me. Tested yesterday, sold 2 hours to 2 level 126 characters, one of them calculated for me and told me he got around 42m exp or 1 level and 30% exp in one hour. Based on the experience table: https://bbb.hidden-street.net/experience-table A level 126 needs 32,741,483 to level, adding the 30% extra he got, we could say he got around 40m exp as he told me. Today i sold 1 hour of leech to a friend who was level 128 and another person who was level 105. Again based on: https://bbb.hidden-street.net/experience-table A level 128 needs 36,428,273 to level and A level 105 needs 10,678,888 to level The results were: My friend got to level 129 and still had some time before the hour was over His partner went from level 105 to 108, 3 levels in 1 hour total sum = 33,824,340 exp Obviously my friend got close if not to 40m exp while his partner got less exp due to the level difference What i'm missing here is the exp where they started they could've had a little bit already What i think is that a low level seller i.e a 14x seller can give around 35m exp to 40m exp in SPLIT depending on the buyers level and how they navigate around the map and that is still close to what people are getting on skeles right now and remember this exp is with the "nerf" to petris and with the current extra bonus exp. Before the nerf i was giving around 50m exp in SPLIT Before the bonus exp i was giving 38 to 40m exp as a level 140 petri seller. So in conclusion with the nerf to petris and after the bonus exp is over i think a lvl 14x seller will give 7 to 8m exp less than before, around 32 or 33m exp total in 1 hour (close or the same as skeles before bonus exp) and that if he or she knows how to navigate around the map, telecast perfectly or close, don't slack or talk too much and if he or she doesn't pick drops at top and bottom.
You're one in a hundred. Also, the last Temple of Time map minimum level requirement is 131. I doubt that anyone is going to /buy/ leech if he is that high (unless the person is stacked with Mesos) and would rather consume self leech instead... But yeah, all in all, Temple of Time is awesome and underrated.
I'm not sure I understand this entirely correctly, so please correct me if there is a gap in my understanding: Since the meta leeching map is now Skeles, I used Shiyui's 1hit magic calculator to look at how much of a disadvantage Archmages have compared to Bishops: Archmage Assuming they're holding the appropriate wand with level 30 ulti, TMA required to 1-hit Skeles = 1302. Accounting for meditation (which gives +20TMA), base TMA required = 1282. Bishop Assuming level 30 ulti, TMA required to 1-hit skeles = 1296. Am I doing something wrong? It doesn't make sense to me that Archmages can 1-hit Skeles even more easily than Bishops. This also doesn't account for the gigantic difference in cost of ultimate skillbooks (cost of Genesis far outweighs costs of Meteor/Blizzard). If my understanding is right, can't Archmages just move over to Skeles to leech now? They'll actually find it even easier to 1-hit Skeles than Bishops. Please help me out if I'm making a mistake here - the numbers are there, but the logic just doesn't make sense to me that Archmages can 1-hit Skeles more easily than Bishops, who are meant to have the elemental advantage.
The difference is, my friend, that archmages solely are a class to grind. Bishops can grind and boss. Now the best end game map is outclassed by bishops over arch mages. Plus the fact that its always full there. Can you understand how useless arch mages feel with their account right now? Theres no reason to make an arch mage at the moment. + you got HS and we dont.
You forgot to factor in the fact that Bishops have Holy Symbol, Mystic Door, and can boss easily (i.e. Zakum, HT, Dojo, etc). They can sell low level leech with ease using only Gen10. The reason Skillbooks are expensive is because there's so many Bishops, which equates to higher demand for the SBs, and how essential they are to boss runs. If Gen20/Gen30 was cheap like AM's SB, nearly no one would make a AM since Bishops would vastly outdo them.
I've seen people suggest buffing ToT in this thread, I'd just like to point out that an equal buff to all the maps will cause an unequal standing between FP and IL (again lol) . Fp will only train in RoR, but all the mobs of RoR are lower lvl than the oblivion maps, so less exp per kill and equips for lower lvls. Also, while FP could easily reach 1h on RoR 5, IL have a lot of growth potential. 1h obv 5 is suuuper hard for IL mage, the most realistic earliest lvl you might be able to do it is like lvl 180? But more often then not, if you dont plan to invest more than a few bils in that mage, you'll only 1h them at lvl 190+ (i have a lvl 178 IL with pretty solid gear, and ever since the ulti damage nerf, i could only 100% 1h at obv 2). My point is, if the goal is to buff these two classes equally, you'd either need to buff RoR more than oblivion (with focus to mage ultis) or find a different approach :/ Who knows, maybe now's the time to revive and update my attacker mage thread suggestion, DEATH TO LEECH!
no RoR drops lucida/rc/earring int 10% and other stuffs while in obv the only good things are pinaka and lvl 100 dark oa for male thief and thats from o2. o4/o5 drops garbo that you can only npc and with decent gears you can easily 1 hit in obv with mw20
Hahaha yes, i am a mw 10 pleb. As i said, doable if you invest a lot into the mage, but some players don't want to overly invest in a class they just see as a money maker. But yea, true, some of the ror items have a sell value higher than npc if you get good stats, but from my experience, this is not a very stable income, but maybe it does match obv. Still, exp issue is the same.
I don't think any equip drop is super OP in ToT (perhaps the level 90 knuckle? Idr lol). What could be done is adding endgame axes, bows to RoR and spears, crossbows (this is just an example) or anything either at least a different color or entirely different to what you get from skeles, ulu, etc. As for EXP, to tell you the truth, I agree. I'm a mw10 pleb too but that's only because I can already one hit everything I need. If you give me a new ceiling, I'll go get mw20 if necessary and will enjoy playing my mage. We could improve RoR's and OB's last maps with mobs with higher HP (which would essentially require really good equips or MW20 - or both) and in turn, good drops and the same exp (slightly less for RoR of course, since ILs struggle doing the quest to get to OB). If these mobs have the same HP, similar and good drops and good exp = attractive niche for mages and we get to grind instead of leech.
Don't get me wrong, guys, I agree with all the things that you're saying! The point I'm trying to make, which neither of you have addressed, is that its actually easier for Archmages to 1-hit Skeles than it is for Bishops to 1-hit Skeles. This is in direct contradiction to the OP's original point/claim: Because Archmages can actually 1-hit Skeles even easier than Bishops. Just to re-iterate, I do agree with your points on HS/Door/Generic bossing capabilities. Not trying to say that Bishops aren't OP - I definitely think they're imbalanced. But that's not the point I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is that with regards to leeching, a very viable option for Archmages now is to move over to Skeles because they can actually 1-hit Skeles more easily than Bishops, lol.
"With the ulu nerf there is no reason to play them anymore since skele is now better and bishops can 1 hit it pretty easily." Yeah, just what you're saying man. Why would you play a mage if you're just gonna do what a bishop does but its gonna cost twice as much in MP pots and you will need a HS mule? Bishops can also buy those weird mage pots in NLC for a good 10 or 8 minutes of 20 matt, effectively making it easier for them to 1hit. Funnily enough, pots those didn't increase in price.
I honestly do feel your frustration (@ all the other posters as well). I don't play an Archmage, but it gives me no joy at all to see your class get shat on by the latest update. I personally don't think some of the changes made sense at all (nerfing Petris in particular), and it really sucks that so many players are getting screwed over by some of these changes. That being said, I'm still not sure you get what I'm trying to communicate here. All I was trying to say in my original post was that we commonly make it out that "Bishops can 1-hit Skeles pretty easily; the Ulu nerf made Archmages redundant" - but the 1-hit numbers show that Archmages can 1-hit Skeles even more easily than Bishops can. To be honest, before running the numbers, I had no idea that AMs required less base TMA than Bishops to 1-hit at Skeles. So why can't Skeles become a viable map for leeching/farming for both Bishops and Archmages? I'm not asking this question in a condescending manner - I genuinely do think AMs can consider farming at Skeles. Also, I do take your point on AMs having double cost in MP pots and requiring a HS mule, and I completely agree that those are considerable pain points on their own. I'd just like to point out that those points are unrelated to the Ulu/Skele trade-off. I.e. Those factors would still be in play regardless of whether Ulu was nerfed. Also, there is another side to this argument, being that Gen20 and Gen30 skillbooks cost about 900m and 1.7b respectively. I'm not making any conclusions here, just saying that there are arguments on both sides for the cost of playing each class! I don't want this to become increasingly argumentative, so I'll just leave a last few words here. As a Bishop, I honestly do feel for Archmages. I personally also do agree that there should be a re-balancing of the magician classes because Bishops have way too much utility in comparison to Archmages. Let's hope the coming update will sort these things out as much as possible!
