In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

If you have 8-10 attackers then congratulations you've explored basically all of maple content. You've put in countless hours to get your high cgs. Now you still have to run 8*40 minutes of rose garden to get income that's only slightly better than other content paths because you don't get boxes anymore. It's a lot harder to get high cgs than it is to get 5 mages to 170 because mages are relatively cheap classes to make and level to 170. And if what you're saying is true and there really are that many people with 8-10 attackers and high cgs, then okay, nerf the entire content more and/or reduce the difference in bees you get from being stronger so that they can't destroy cs prices and cause people to progress through the entire game too quickly.

Imo the overall meso/xp gain from rose garden is nerfed even for people with high cgs. The extra time you get in rose garden bonus for being high cgs is almost certainly worth less than the boxes that were removed.

 

In general, let's try to refrain from making wild and unsubstantiated speculations and claims until more run data comes in.

Page 1 is a graveyard of such posts, and really should serve as a lesson in speaking from ignorance.

Whether or not you like or dislike the current changes, and certainly you can be both, it's highly unlikely to receive another such adjustment for a few days yet so it's not too late to better investigate run outcomes before screaming the end.

What is this way? Quite curious.

 

If being honest. In must say that RG was too OP. but with this change, im losing meso on ny Fp 1300 tma mage from running it. I had so much fun earning meso, but more important was to navigate the map with poison mist and calxulate best way for max harvset.
Now top tier mage will swap gear from theyre mages, and avg mages will have 5 min Bonus like i had
I think you should have changed it difffently. Because rich 6 mage account will still make the almost same profit, but avg 1 mage character is useless again

 

Patch says boss hp is halved, but card set still showing the same amount

 

My melees get more bonus time than before, even my shad that is 176 with minimal gear got 31 mins of bon.
It's still better for me than farming, I just don't do mages anymore.
This still has the same issue, it will inject a lot of meso to the market and it's a higher meso/h rate than multimage farming.
This update solved mages, but didn't tackle the core problem which i hope you will do very soon.

 

The more damage scaling or level matters, the more viable it is for mage main and less viable for mage mules. So tweaks to hp or overall timer in the right amount would do the job, or even tweaks to mage single target DPS scaling with magic.

 

Agree with this, why nerf so much only on mages?

Just like you, I tried everything to catch more bees.
Every time I get a new record, I feel really happy.

But now, I don't see any reason to keep doing this.

 

I think this is isolated to players like you.

• I’m 62cgs and my untradeables are shit and am around 25mins, all non 200 charas, (189,177,178)
• Most newer players are getting 15-20mins for bon.
• Most mages are getting like 10-15mins for bon.

We play hard and are content with it. But I think the bigger issue with pure meso printingg is that it was getting such a large community that doesn’t normally farm to contribute in pure meso printing.

• People who previously FM hoed only
• People who previously only sat around waiting for R>content

Now that the nerfs went thru those players are either stunted with almost only half the bon time or just deincentivized altogether to stop rose gardening.

If nerfs stay the way as it is, I’m pretty sure only the stronger (50cgs+ with decent weapons) grindy mentality will continue to do bon on 2+ characters, effectively solving the pure meso issue.

TLDR;

• RG isn’t printing meso as it used to because newer players can’t or won’t grind it effectively like before
• End game attackers can still grind it nearly effectively as before, or even more bon time as before

 

This is spot on imo. The only thing I'm convinced works differently is the effect of the changes on end game attackers. Sylafia said she got 146m/hr from cs alone. not sure if that was exclusively from boxes or including totem gacha, but if we assumed an equal split of cs from gacha/totem from her data, we're talking about a 73mil/hr nerf to overall meso gain from garden, and that's just from cs. that doesn't factor in the loss of the occasional 50m you'd get from 10 bees from boxes and other rewards from boxes that are now gone. That matters so much more than 3-5 extra minutes of bee farming where you might get an extra couple bees.

You have to progress through the content and make mesos at regular rates to get your 60 cgs n ow that the nerf is in. With the way rose garden was pre nerf, you didn't need 60 cgs to make this kind of money. You could make 6 mages, circumvent the entire gameplay loop we have right now and print mesos at rates that took others years to get to, so the entire economy was alienated.

The data simply doesn't support the notion that even 60cgs end game grind lords can make more overall mesos through rose garden than before. From just bee bonus sure, but thats short-sighted.

 

Anyone who did a run today can confirm what are the EXP nerfs of all the mobs in rose garden?

 

I was able to test Rose Garden pre-nerf and post-nerf and here is what I found: (I'm going to try and keep it short and sweet)

-1568 TMA with MW20 and no potions

Pre-Nerf Rose Garden: Using banana graham pies
- Collected 30~35 golden bees (150-175m) in the 30 minute timer

Post-Nerf Rose Garden: Using Swiss Cheese
- Cleared first 2 stages in 17 minutes (23 minutes of bonus room)
- Collected 14 golden bees (70m)


How does it feel?:
Not going to lie, the nerf feels bad. It hits hard.

My Suggestion(s):
- Remove the golden bee despawn timer to allow for more farming time, with less time spent hunting down the bees
- Lower genesis/blizzard/meteor bee spawn nerf down to 15% or 12.5% to help meet in the middle ground
- Lower the HP of the boss to somewhere around 35m (I'm unsure what the previous HP value was)

Why?:
- As previously stated, removing the despawn timer allows for mages to focus on farming the mobs, and collecting the bees at a more lax pace
- Lowering the bee spawn nerf from mage ults to help meet a middle ground between pre-nerf gains and post nerf gains
- The HP of the boss seems much higher to me taking up quite a bit of time, it would be nice to have it be a little quicker to be able to kill

I understand that this content has the potential to be overpowered for mages, however, in order to be a strong mage and make good time within the run, you're most likely going to want to be level 200. If you're level 200, you aren't running this content for EXP. You do get burning energy from the run, but being realistic, there aren't all that many mages out there who will be looking to use burning energy for any of the items it is used for. The despawn timer on golden bees just seems excessive and really has no value other than to frustrate players more. Considering in my post-nerf run I gathered 70m worth of bees while spending 40m on Swiss Cheese for the run, I only gained 30m from the run and 5k nx... is that really worth it to the average player? And this is coming from someone who is a funded bishop main. This nerf kinda makes the content go from 100>0. I understand that pre-nerf might have been a bit too overpowered, but I think there is a middle ground to be found here. If the content stays as is, then this content currently excludes mages from being able to participate effectively which is a feelsbadman. Mages deserve to have some new content that rewards time and effort put into a character. This content raises the bar from 1300 magic (to 1H skeles) for the first time in a long time. Please lessen the nerf for mages and help fuel peoples motivation to make stronger mages! Stronger mages = more int gear = more fuel for our economy.

Lets get this bread!

 

That was purely from boxes. I'd guess that I did get cs at around 3x the actual probability, from talking with other people in my alliance

Bees from boxes averaged out to around 4-5m/run.

Totems are around 50/run. My worry is this boss change will result in potentially people skipping bon and running just the boss on repeat with 6+ attackers. If you clear in 10 mins per run, that's around 300m/hr (or double if you duo attack it). Actually more efficient than bonus unless you were catching 30+ bees before the change.

Looks to be about half exp. Personally I'm fine with it and think that's a good change but I've never really cared too much about exp

 

Are you appling? cause my shad is 176 with 57 base dex, I don't think im particularly strong or had good rng.
I'll give it another try tomorrow but I'm fairly sure getting over 30 mins is not hard on apple on low fund

 

I would 3 apples with attacker. It worth it

 

Do the 1st map flowers get a rework? why are they so bugged for all push/pull skills?

 

Looks like the boss dropping less totems would make sense too

 

New update: 180 NL using 40 stoppers

Stage 1 & 2 = 13 min
Boss = 9 min , 40 totems 1k NX
Bonus = 18min , 8 bee's.

Yeah awsome change. Love it.

 

Huh.... that's really lame. Another cool content killed by overnerfing, we can't have nice things

 

200 NL gizer run+echo, barely got 20 bees during 25: 30 min bon (with what felt like above average bee spawn rng I might add, but I could be mistaken), I will quickly SE myself before entry tomorrow and check if it makes any difference for more overall bon time but I highly doubt it.

Where is my supposed buff for “being a 50b+ attacker” people are talking about here?

It honestly seems like everyone (including BMs, so not only melees) got extremely buffed except mages and (mostly casual) NLs who got nerfed to the ground. Well, time to invest in a better sword for my hero, finish preqs and make it a RG mule instead of a cwk one for those 30+ bees